Establishing the Manner of Death: A 3D Reconstruction of a Case of Hanging

Round 1

Reviewer 1 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

The definition of suicide as a recurrent variety of unnatural death is a bit too lyricač. I do not feel it is an appropriate definition for the scientific communication. 

Captions to all figures should specifically describe the figure - this is referring to all of the figures. All the captions are pretty inarticulated (figure 9 especially). 

Comments on the Quality of English Language

Read carefully for typos. 

Author Response

^{Thank you very much for taking the time to review this manuscript. Please find the detailed responses below and the corresponding corrections highlighted changes with red color in the re-submitted files. We have also carefully corrected the typos.}

<sup>COMMENTS
Comments and Suggestions for Authors
The definition of suicide as a recurrent variety of unnatural death is a bit too lyricač. I do not feel it is an appropriate definition for the scientific communication. Captions to all figures should specifically describe the figure - this is referring to all of the figures. All the captions are pretty inarticulated (figure 9 especially).
Comments on the Quality of English Language
Read carefully for typos.

RESPONSE:
1) We cited the definition of suicide given by the National Institute of Mental Health to have a more scientific approach.
2) We adjusted the captions and reduced the figures' numbers</sup>

Reviewer 2 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

the paper reports the application of three-dimensional reconstruction techniques in a hanging case. The application is interesting. The following additions are proposed. In the abstract, enter more completely the type of system used for the reconstruction. under discussion to report is to completely analyze the cases in the literature in which the laser system has been used in hanging and to indicate what difficulties and what usefulness the other authors have reported in their works. Then compare what is contained in the literature and what results from personal experience.

Author Response

^{Thank you very much for taking the time to review this manuscript. Please find the detailed responses below and the corresponding corrections highlighted changes with red color in the re-submitted files. We have also carefully corrected the typos.}

<sup>COMMENTS:
Comments and Suggestions for Authors
the paper reports the application of three-dimensional reconstruction techniques in a hanging case. The application is interesting. The following additions are proposed. In the abstract, enter more completely the type of system used for the reconstruction. under discussion to report is to completely analyze the cases in the literature in which the laser system has been used in hanging and to indicate what difficulties and what usefulness the other authors have reported in their works. Then compare what is contained in the literature and what results from personal experience.

RESPONSE:
1) We clarify the methods in the abstract.
2) To the best of our knowledge, no other case of 3D reconstruction of hanging was described in the literature.
3) Not applicable</sup>

Reviewer 3 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

None

Author Response

^{None comments.}

^{None response.}

Reviewer 4 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

Dear authors

I was aked to reivew your paper which I found very nice and interesting. I belive that this approach should indeed be published and think that your paper would be well placed in this journal.

However, there are some major changes that should be performed. Essentially, the methodology is not clear and there are too many figures.

Here are my concrete propositions:

1. Introduction: I don't understand the sentances "So, the manner of death in hanging is virutally always suicide". What do you mean with "virtually" and what is with cases of accidental suicie (autoerotic accidents). You do not at all mention this manneer of death. 

2. In the whole paper you talk about "crime scene" but as there is no crime, you should cange the term into "on site investigation". 

 

3. The chapter "2. Case" should be restructured. Plase add subtitles such as:

- Information form the police investigation

- One-site investigation

- Autopsy findings

- Results of complementary investigations (toxicoloy, histology, etc)

- 3D-imaging 

4. In each of the subchapters you should clearly explain what you have done and who has done what (whole body autopsy? according to which guidles? Wo did the auotpsy? Experience of the physicians, who did the on-site investigation, which additional exams have been done? Who interpretet them? 

5. Especially the "3D-imaging part should be much further developped. Who did the data aquisition? What was exactly the material used? Which software? What is the training of the person who did the scan? And the one of the person who treated the data ect.?

6. Figures: there are too much. We don't need so many for the strangulation mark for exemple. And you can group them into figures with a,b,c (e.g Strangulation mark photographed from anterior (a), lateral (b), posterieur (c)... also the 3D-images can be grouped into 1-2 images 

7. In the chapter "on-site investigation", you should discrible also all the measurments (e.g longer of cable, hights, etc..) this is coming only later.

8. Figure 9, is very hard to understand... can you explain better or use it as a zoom and indicate in another figure where this is? Also the salive trace is not visible. maybe you can superimpose a photograph ? Or just put it next to it?

9. Disucssion: it would be nice if you could indicate the readers what they need to do the same thing that you have done? Which material? Wich software and which training is needed to perfom this reconsturcion. What do you advice if an istitute wants to start using this technique?

Comments on the Quality of English Language

There are some typos and words missing. A concentrated reading is needed. 

Author Response

^{Thank you very much for taking the time to review this manuscript. Please find the detailed responses below and the corresponding corrections highlighted changes with red color in the re-submitted files. We have also carefully corrected the typos.}

<sup>COMMENTS:
Comments and Suggestions for Authors
Dear authors
I was aked to reivew your paper which I found very nice and interesting. I belive that this approach should indeed be published and think that your paper would be well placed in this journal.
However, there are some major changes that should be performed. Essentially, the methodology is not clear and there are too many figures.
Here are my concrete propositions:
1. Introduction: I don't understand the sentances "So, the manner of death in hanging is virutally always suicide". What do you mean with "virtually" and what is with cases of accidental suicie (autoerotic accidents). You do not at all mention this manneer of death.
2. In the whole paper you talk about "crime scene" but as there is no crime, you should cange the term into "on site investigation".
3. The chapter "2. Case" should be restructured. Plase add subtitles such as:
- Information form the police investigation
- One-site investigation
- Autopsy findings
- Results of complementary investigations (toxicoloy, histology, etc)
- 3D-imaging
4. In each of the subchapters you should clearly explain what you have done and who has done what (whole body autopsy? according to which guidles? Wo did the auotpsy? Experience of the physicians, who did the on-site investigation, which additional exams have been done? Who interpretet them?
5. Especially the "3D-imaging part should be much further developped. Who did the data aquisition? What was exactly the material used? Which software? What is the training of the person who did the scan? And the one of the person who treated the data ect.?
6. Figures: there are too much. We don't need so many for the strangulation mark for exemple. And you can group them into figures with a,b,c (e.g Strangulation mark photographed from anterior (a), lateral (b), posterieur (c)... also the 3D-images can be grouped into 1-2 images
7. In the chapter "on-site investigation", you should discrible also all the measurments (e.g longer of cable, hights, etc..) this is coming only later.
8. Figure 9, is very hard to understand... can you explain better or use it as a zoom and indicate in another figure where this is? Also the salive trace is not visible. maybe you can superimpose a photograph ? Or just put it next to it?
9. Disucssion: it would be nice if you could indicate the readers what they need to do the same thing that you have done? Which material? Wich software and which training is needed to perfom this reconsturcion. What do you advice if an istitute wants to start using this technique?

Comments on the Quality of English Language
There are some typos and words missing. A concentrated reading is needed.

RESPONSE:
1) We meant that, as homicidal or accidental hanging is anecdotal, from the investigators' point of view, every case of hanging is "virtually" a suicide. We fixed the sentence, trying to clarify the meaning.
2) When appropriate, we avoid the term "crime scene". We kept the term when it was referred to a proper crime scene.
3-4-5) Thank you for this suggestion. We use subheadings in paragraph 2. We also tried to clarify the methods. We did not follow a specific guideline for the autopsy because, to our knowledge, the first guidelines for autopsy in case of hanging were published in 2023 by the Royal College of Pathologists.
6-8) We reduced the number of the figures and clarified the captions.
7) We tried to fix the paragraph.
9) in the discussion, we briefly described the materials we used: the Trimble X7 Laser Scanner (LINE 168) was the hardware, the software was PC-Crash, and we used the Multibody System (LINE 177). A more complete description of the technical aspects of the study can be found in paragraph 2.5.3D Reconstruction (LINES 131-141)</sup>

Round 2

Reviewer 2 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

The aurhors followed the suggestikns of reviewers. The paper can be published in the present form.

 

Reviewer 4 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

Dear authors

Thank you very much for your answers to my questions and comments. I think you did a great job by reviewing this manuscript and I believe it will be appreciated by the readers.

Congratulations for the great work.