Green Heritage and Lanna Urban Identity: A Study of Temples in Chiang Mai Old City

Round 1

Reviewer 1 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

Is very often that in heritage analysis and studies, we look into the vegetation for granted. When we spoke about landscape, that cultural construction of the environment, the vegetation seems to be just there. This particular article, give a very fresh look into how plants are a very important for cultural construction of the self-identity of a community. The way the authors describe and dissect the present of vegetation in relationship with the Lanna temples, is very interesting. A mental exercise, make me think of the big ceibas/pochota trees for the maya communities as the center of the town/universe; the presence of the big arbol del Tule (the Tule tree) in Oaxaca, or the famous Arbol de la Noche Triste (the tree of the sad night) in Mexico City where legend say Cortez, the Spanish conquistador, cried after been defeated by the Aztecs. This article makes me realize how important vegetation is for the community or better say, for a community who still had a strong connection with their land. 

Saying that, the article relevance is to put at the same label of importance the trees, the bushes and flowers that had some relationship with our community and history. They deserve to be register, save and keep as well as the material monuments. The authors also, mentions briefly in the conclusions, how the cultural vegetation is in danger when the society around it lost its way or relationship with is cultural roots. Modernity, as a very dangerous virus, claim cultural heritage every year, and vegetations as an immaterial heritage, is more in danger than the monuments if we are not careful.

Now in the article, the authors describe the difference on type and origin of the plants; about the use of them (food, medicinal, ornamental, etc.), and how they be used on names and decoration. My personal question, is: in the article they mention for example the location of medicinal and food species; are those used for those purposes inside the temples? or just happened to be there? the plants had another used in the temples beside decoration? are they planted and harvest for ceremonies?

About the illustrations, I think they are just fine. Plenty of information on the tables as well.

English is fine, with some minor space errors between words and citations.

 

 

 

Author Response

Reviewer 1:

Thank you for your kind review and constructive comments. We have taken some time to submit a revised version of the manuscript to verify our responses to reviewer critique. We hope that our responses will be acceptable to the reviewers. Thank you for your consideration.

Based on your valuable feedback, we have broadened our consideration of the issues related to this topic and further developed the article in several key areas, including:

 

Highlight the Importance of Vegetation in Cultural Heritage:

• Emphasize how vegetation contributes to the cultural construction of self-identity in communities: The revised detail as shown in Line 57-62 page 2

Vegetation is crucial to the cultural identity of Thai communities. The Kaloeng Ethnic Group in Sakon Nakhon relies on the Don Pu Ta Forest for medicinal plants, shaping their traditions and healthcare practices [13]. Historical murals in temples such as Phumin and Nongbua in Nan depict daily life plant species, reflecting regional cultural values and informing current landscape design [14]. These examples demonstrate that vegetation sustains communities and significantly contributes to their cultural identity and practices.

• Draw parallels between the presence of vegetation in the Lanna temples and other historical examples, such as the ceibas/pochota trees in Maya communities and the Tule tree in Oaxaca: The revised detail as shown in Line 63-71 page 2

The presence of vegetation in Lanna temples can be paralleled with historical examples like the Maya culture, where plants played significant roles in daily life and rituals. In the Classic Maya village of Joya de Ceren showcased the importance of plants in various contexts, offering insights into botanical resource management and spatial relationships within gardens and households [15]. Furthermore, the symbolic significance of trees like the ceiba among the ancient Maya and the live oak in Louisiana highlights how vegetation can become central to cultural landscapes, serving as historic landmarks and adding character to the environment [16]. These parallels emphasize the intertwined relationship between vegetation, culture, and the built environment in different historical contexts.

Vegetation as Cultural Heritage:

• Stress the importance of recognizing trees, bushes, and flowers as integral parts of cultural heritage, on par with material monuments.: We have revised as shown in Line 590-596 page 17

Recognizing plants as integral parts of cultural heritage is crucial for preserving natural and historical richness [49]. These natural elements, alongside material monuments, contribute significantly to the landscape's value and aesthetic appeal, impacting viewers and passersby [50]. Natural monuments, including various plant species, hold great historical, scenic, and scientific value. Moreover, the visual impact of cultural and historical monuments is heavily influenced by surrounding vegetation, emphasizing the importance of considering plants in landscape design practices.

 

• Expand on the idea that vegetation deserves to be registered, preserved, and maintained as cultural heritage. We have revised as shown in Line 607-611 page 18

Implementing strategies from this study to protect green heritage, such as recognizing and managing appropriate landscape plant species that affect cultural heritage monuments, is essential for safeguarding their integrity and historical significance. Acknowledging and preserving landscape plants as integral components of cultural heritage is vital for maintaining the holistic heritage landscape.

 

Cultural Vegetation at Risk:

• Elaborate on the dangers facing cultural vegetation due to societal changes and loss of cultural roots and discuss how modernity threatens both immaterial and material heritage, with a focus on the vulnerability of cultural vegetation.
• Discuss how modernity threatens both immaterial and material heritage, with a focus on the vulnerability of cultural vegetation.

We have revised as shown in Line 79-88 page 2

These changes are part of a broader trend of rapid urban development and societal changes resulting from urbanization, which are eroding the unique patterns of urban livelihood and culture. This neglects the value of historical urban communities and their traditional practices [22]. Additionally, the impact of urbanization on spirituality and changing lifestyles is altering cultural perceptions and traditions, affecting the population's spiritual connection to local plants [23]. The loss of traditional ecological knowledge among local communities due to urbanization further exacerbates the situation, as these communities lose vital resources that support their subsistence and livelihoods. This loss ultimately endangers the conservation of valuable traditional knowledge related to local plants.

 

From your valuable question “My personal question, is: in the article they mention for example the location of medicinal and food species; are those used for those purposes inside the temples? or just happened to be there? the plants had another used in the temples beside decoration? are they planted and harvest for ceremonies?”

We appreciate for you feedback. We have revised by adding more explanation in our work as shown in Line 392-400 page 11

This study was found that ornamental and cultural plants within the temple landscapes are actively utilized in various rituals conducted both within the temples and the surrounding communities. Edible plants are considered communal resources, available for sharing and consumption by all community members. While medicinal plants and applicable plants were present in the temple landscapes, interviews with monks and stakeholders revealed that these plants are no longer employed for contemporary medicinal or practical purposes. Instead, they are maintained for their historical significance and traditional uses from ancient times. This shift underscores a transition from active usage to the symbolic preservation of botanical heritage within these sacred spaces.

 

Once again, we sincerely appreciate your insightful suggestions and the opportunity to revise our study. Your feedback will contribute to the overall improvement of our study, and we are grateful for your valuable input.

 

Author Response File: Author Response.docx

Reviewer 2 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

The article “Green Heritage and Lanna Urban Identity: A Study of Temple in Chiang Mai Old City ” reflects the role of landscape plants in shaping the cultural, aesthetic, and social identity of Lanna temples in Chiang Mai Old City, Thailand. The Introduction section provides sufficient background, it is very informative, and reflects the topic of the article. The methodological section is adequately described and easy to understand. The study area is very well presented. The authors have done a great job presenting their research results with constructive comments and managerial implications in the Results and Discussion section. Cited references are relevant to the research. The article is correctly written, appropriately designed, and demonstrates the application of chosen methods correctly, as well as the outputs of these methods. The paper's topic is quite interesting and novel, and the paper will make a significant and worthy contribution. This kind of study can find its place in a specialized publication such as Sustainability.

However, there are a few suggestions that may improve the article's quality:

1. Introduction

Can you provide a deeper connection between the HUL approach and green heritage? Is this topic widely spread or this is a novelty? Is there an article dealing with a similar approach?

2. Methodology

You stated „The use of plants was documented through interviews, which were later corroborated with referenced documents“. What is the structure of interviewed persons, their affiliation, are they locals, tourists or authorities?

3. Results/Discussion

You mentioned the tourism purpose of the green heritage. Is there any thematic route to interpret the green heritage of the study area? Can you suggest one? Are they presented within a cultural heritage? Do they have the motivation power to attract tourists?

4. Is there a plan for the protection of the green heritage of the study area?

5. What are the limitations of the research?

 

Author Response

Reviewer : 2

 

Thank you for your comprehensive and positive feedback on the article “Green Heritage and Lanna Urban Identity: A Study of Temple in Chiang Mai Old City.” We appreciate your recognition of the article's strengths in background information, methodology, study area presentation, and relevance of cited references. We also value your suggestions for improvement and will consider them to enhance the article's quality.

 

Introduction

 “Can you provide a deeper connection between the HUL approach and green heritage?”

We have revised the manuscript in line 28-31 page 1 as:

The HUL approach promotes a holistic view that considers the relationship between historic districts and their ecological surroundings [2]. By integrating local plants, traditional villages like those in Southern Anhui can maintain their authenticity and cultural continuity while fostering sustainable development [3].

 

 “Is this topic widely spread or this is a novelty?” 

We have clarified in line 667-673 page 19 as:

The Historic Urban Landscape (HUL) approach, which integrates landscape plants into urban heritage conservation, is a relatively novel method. Although it is gaining recognition and support, particularly through UNESCO's advocacy, its widespread implementation is still in the early stages. This approach represents a significant shift from traditional heritage preservation methods by emphasizing the importance of ecological and landscape elements, such as local plants and vegetation, in maintaining the cultural, ecological, and social dimensions of heritage sites.

 “Is there an article dealing with a similar approach?”

We have included references to articles that address a similar approach to emphasize the novelty and relevance of this study in line 32-37 page 2 as:

Additionally, applying the HUL approach in cities such as Muntok and Banjarmasin, Indonesia, encourages multi-stakeholder collaboration to promote heritage and socio-cultural practices. This can include the preservation and utilization of local plant species as catalysts for sustainable development [4]. This integration of local plants not only enhances the aesthetic value of urban landscapes but also contributes to the overall well-being of communities living in these heritage sites.

 

 

 

Methodology

“You stated “The use of plants was documented through interviews, which were later corroborated with referenced documents“. What is the structure of interviewed persons, their affiliation, are they locals, tourists or authorities?”

Thank you for highlighting this point; it can indeed enhance the quality of our paper. Following your suggestion, we have made efforts to clarify and elaborate on the structure and affiliation of the interviewed persons to provide a more comprehensive understanding of our data sources in line 137-140 page 4 as:

The utilization of plants was documented through structured interviews with purposively sampled participants, including monks, temple caretakers, and long-term residents of over 20 years in the study area. Transcripts were analyzed for recurring themes using qualitative data analysis tools, and the findings were corroborated with academic publications.

 

Results/Discussion

“You mentioned the tourism purpose of the green heritage. Is there any thematic route to interpret the green heritage of the study area?” Can you suggest one?

Thank you for your insightful questions. We have discussed the tourism purpose of the green heritage in more detail and analyze the motivational power of green heritage to attract tourists and suggest a thematic route to interpret the green heritage of the study area in line 640-647 page 18 as:

Local plants also play a crucial role in tourism landscapes by supporting biodiversity, conservation efforts, and enhancing the visitor experience. Incorporating native plants into urban landscape planning fosters a strong sense of place, providing ecological and economic benefits while strengthening the cultural identity and unique character of the area. This study informed the development of the "Green City Tour" shuttle route, highlighting the historical and culturally significant trees in Chiang Mai's old city, in collaboration with the Chiang Mai Municipality. This service operates daily with multi-lingual commentary to enrich the tourist experience.

 

Are they presented within a cultural heritage? Do they have the motivation power to attract tourists?

We appreciate the reviewer for highlighting this issue. We have revised the manuscript to ensure that the presentation of green heritage elements is clearly framed within the broader context of cultural heritage  in line 590-596 page 17 as:

Recognizing plants as integral parts of cultural heritage is crucial for preserving natural and historical richness [49]. These natural elements, alongside material monuments, contribute significantly to the landscape's value and aesthetic appeal, impacting viewers and passersby [50]. Natural monuments, including various plant species, hold great historical, scenic, and scientific value. Moreover, the visual impact of cultural and historical monuments is heavily influenced by surrounding vegetation, emphasizing the importance of considering plants in landscape design practices.

 

Is there a plan for the protection of the green heritage of the study area?

Thank you for your insightful questions. We have discussed and outline an existing plans for the protection of the green heritage in the study area in line 598-611 page 17-18 as:

 

Currently, the management plan for urban green spaces in Chiang Mai, particularly concerning plants as cultural heritage, remains undefined. Each large, old tree is managed by its respective landowner, often without adequate arboricultural knowledge. Landscape vegetation within residential areas is partially preserved in accordance with traditional concepts, beliefs, and cultural practices. However, certain aspects have evolved due to fashion trends, leading to the introduction of numerous exotic ornamental plants available in the market. Furthermore, the green spaces overseen by the municipal government lack specific guidelines regarding culturally, traditionally, and historically appropriate species for planting.

Implementing strategies from this study to protect green heritage, such as recognizing and managing appropriate landscape plant species that affect cultural heritage monuments, is essential for safeguarding their integrity and historical significance. Acknowledging and preserving landscape plants as integral components of cultural heritage is vital for maintaining the holistic heritage landscape.

 

What are the limitations of the research?

Thank you for highlighting this point; it can indeed enhance the quality of our paper. Following your suggestion, we have made efforts to state the limitations of this study in line 726-734 page 20 as:

The study acknowledges several limitations that should be addressed in future re-search. Firstly, its scope is restricted to temples within Chiang Mai Old City, potentially limiting the generalizability of the findings to other regions with different cultural and ecological contexts. Secondly, the reliance on interviews for data collection may introduce subjectivity, despite efforts to corroborate findings with historical documents and scholarly publications. Additionally, the focus on specific plant species might overlook other important flora contributing to the cultural landscape. Lastly, the lack of a comprehensive management plan for urban green spaces highlights the need for further research and policy development to preserve cultural heritage amid urbanization.

Once again, we sincerely appreciate your insightful suggestions and the opportunity to revise our study. Your feedback will contribute to the overall improvement of our study, and we are grateful for your valuable input.

Author Response File: Author Response.docx

Reviewer 3 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

The introduction could benefit from further clarification of the work conducted in this article and may require revision.

Additionally, the methodological approach would be improved by offering a more detailed description of the methods and processes used for data collection.

To improve the organization of the article, it would be beneficial to first discuss the concepts and develop the theoretical approach to the theme. This will help in structuring the discourse throughout the article. Following this, the methodology should be clearly explained, and the discussion of data and conclusions should be presented. I suggest organizing the research plan accordingly.

I also suggest improving the discourse around the concept of "Plants as Heritage," particularly from a cultural perspective, which needs to be more thoroughly supported.

The idea expressed in "Modernization has frequently altered the original layout of the cultural landscape" (line 58) needs to be more detailed. Modernization can involve the necessary improvement and preservation of heritage over time and does not necessarily imply the destruction of heritage. In this case, is it an example of heritage destruction or modification?

Explain the use of “evidence in ancient maps and photographs indicating the characteristics of landscape plants in temple grounds and streetscapes in Chiang Mai Old City” (lines 177-178), as this approach is not mentioned in the methodological process. Additionally, indicate the source of these photographs. Since the maps were not used, it would be better to omit that reference.

Explain the process of identification and support the source of this data: “ The study documented a total of 32,899 plants within the Lanna temples of Chiang (line 207 )Mai Old City, representing a diverse range of species from various geographical origins.” (Line 208) and “The data from this study indicate significant interactions between plant types” (Line 251)

Explain the process of categorization: “The categorization divides 294 the plants into several functional groups” (294)

This article contains a massive amount of information, covering very different areas and utilizing a diverse range of methodologies. I suggest focusing this article, diving deeper into one subject to improve clearly the organization and the development of ideas, as well as to strengthen the conceptual support.

Author Response

Reviewer : 3

 

Thank you for your comprehensive and positive feedback on the article “Green Heritage and Lanna Urban Identity: A Study of Temple in Chiang Mai Old City.” We appreciate your recognition of the article's strengths in background information, methodology, study area presentation, and relevance of cited references. We also value your suggestions for improvement and will consider them to enhance the article's quality.

 

The introduction could benefit from further clarification of the work conducted in this article and may require revision.

Additionally, the methodological approach would be improved by offering a more detailed description of the methods and processes used for data collection.

To improve the organization of the article, it would be beneficial to first discuss the concepts and develop the theoretical approach to the theme. This will help in structuring the discourse throughout the article. Following this, the methodology should be clearly explained, and the discussion of data and conclusions should be presented. I suggest organizing the research plan accordingly.

 

Thank you very much for your constructive feedback. We greatly appreciate your detailed suggestions for enhancing the clarity and organization of our article. We have revised the introduction to provide a more precise outline of the work conducted in this study. Additionally, we have significantly enhanced the methodological section by offering a comprehensive description of the methods and processes used for data collection. In line with your recommendation, we have restructured the article to first discuss the concepts and develop the theoretical approach to the theme.  Thank you again for your invaluable insights, which will undoubtedly strengthen the quality and impact of our manuscript.

 

Follow your suggestion “I also suggest improving the discourse around the concept of "Plants as Heritage," particularly from a cultural perspective, which needs to be more thoroughly supported.”

we have made efforts to improve the discourse around the concept of "Plants as Heritage" from a cultural perspective and provide thorough support and evidence for this concept to strengthen the argument in line 57-71 page 2 as:

 

Vegetation is crucial to the cultural identity of Thai communities. The Kaloeng Ethnic Group in Sakon Nakhon relies on the Don Pu Ta Forest for medicinal plants, shaping their traditions and healthcare practices [13]. Historical murals in temples such as Phumin and Nongbua in Nan depict daily life plant species, reflecting regional cultural values and informing current landscape design [14]. These examples demonstrate that vegetation sustains communities and significantly contributes to their cultural identity and practices.

The presence of vegetation in Lanna temples can be paralleled with historical ex-amples like the Maya culture, where plants played significant roles in daily life and rituals. In the Classic Maya village of Joya de Ceren showcased the importance of plants in various contexts, offering insights into botanical resource management and spatial rela-tionships within gardens and households [15]. Furthermore, the symbolic significance of trees like the ceiba among the ancient Maya and the live oak in Louisiana highlights how vegetation can become central to cultural landscapes, serving as historic landmarks and adding character to the environment [16]. These parallels emphasize the intertwined relationship between vegetation, culture, and the built environment in different historical contexts.

 

And line 590-596 page 17 as:

Recognizing plants as integral parts of cultural heritage is crucial for preserving natural and historical richness [49]. These natural elements, alongside material monu-ments, contribute significantly to the landscape's value and aesthetic appeal, impacting viewers and passersby [50]. Natural monuments, including various plant species, hold great historical, scenic, and scientific value. Moreover, the visual impact of cultural and historical monuments is heavily influenced by surrounding vegetation, emphasizing the importance of considering plants in landscape design practices.

 

 

 “The idea expressed in "Modernization has frequently altered the original layout of the cultural landscape" (line 58) needs to be more detailed. Modernization can involve the necessary improvement and preservation of heritage over time and does not necessarily imply the destruction of heritage. In this case, is it an example of heritage destruction or modification?”

Thank you for highlighting this point; it can indeed enhance the quality of our paper. Following your suggestion, we have rewrite and elaborate on the statement "Modernization has frequently altered the original layout of the cultural landscape” in line 72-88 page 23 as:

 

 

Modernization has frequently altered the original layout of cultural landscapes. For instance, the Thai government's temple development program in 1981 increased com-petition among Lanna temples [17]. Consequently, concrete pavements have replaced lawns and sand courts in Lanna temples [18] [19] [20]. This transformation has affected the quantity and quality of the Lanna temple landscape, irrespective of its cultural value. New religious buildings have come to dominate sacred trees, and many local plants have been removed without consideration for pruning, transplanting, or their historical value, due to potential structural harm caused by their branches or roots [21]. These changes, which seem like heritage destruction, are part of a broader trend of rapid urban development and societal changes resulting from urbanization, which are eroding the unique patterns of urban livelihood and culture. This neglects the value of historical urban communities and their traditional practices [22]. Additionally, the impact of urbanization on spirituality and changing lifestyles is altering cultural perceptions and traditions, affecting the population's spiritual connection to local plants [23]. The loss of traditional ecological knowledge among local communities due to urbanization further exacerbates the situa-tion, as these communities lose vital resources that support their subsistence and liveli-hoods. This loss ultimately endangers the conservation of valuable traditional knowledge related to local plants.

 

Explain the use of “evidence in ancient maps and photographs indicating the characteristics of landscape plants in temple grounds and streetscapes in Chiang Mai Old City” (lines 177-178), as this approach is not mentioned in the methodological process. Additionally, indicate the source of these photographs. Since the maps were not used, it would be better to omit that reference.

Thank you for highlighting this point; Following your suggestion, we have explained the approach of using evidence from ancient maps and photographs to indicate the characteristics of landscape plants in temple grounds and streetscapes in Chiang Mai Old City in line 142-145 page 4 as:

The comparison of ancient maps with photographs was conducted by studying the oldest available maps and comparing them with corresponding historical photographs from the National Archives of Thailand, aligning with the locations depicted on those maps.

 And line 234-237 page 7 as:

A.) Tree illustration on a map of Chiang Mai Old City by McCarthy in 1893. The black point indi-cates the location of (B) and (C.) B.) The scenery of the area in front of the temple grounds of Wat Phra Singh in the early 1900s. C.) The scenery of the area in front of the temple grounds of Wat Phra Singh in 2023. (Source of map and photograph(B): National Archives of Thailand) 

 

Explain the process of identification and support the source of this data: “The study documented a total of 32,899 plants within the Lanna temples of Chiang (line 207 )Mai Old City, representing a diverse range of species from various geographical origins.” (Line 208) and “The data from this study indicate significant interactions between plant types” (Line 251)

Thank you for your valuable feedback and suggestions. We have rewrite more detail to clarify the process of identification and the source of the data in line 130-142 page 4 as:

A comprehensive ground survey was conducted to document the location, taxonomy (including trees, shrubs, ground covers, climbing plants, epiphytes, and aquatic plants), and growth status (ground or container) of plants. Plant data were cataloged through systematic field surveys, with species identified using field guides, academic literature, and expert consultations. Data collection utilized digital tools and was compiled into a research report, which underwent verification through peer reviews and cross-referencing with other studies. Statistical analysis revealed significant interactions between plant types, highlighting their coexistence and mutual influence within the temple ecosystems. The utilization of plants was documented through structured interviews with purposively sampled participants, including monks, temple caretakers, and long-term residents of over 20 years in the study area. Transcripts were analyzed for recurring themes using qualitative data analysis tools, and the findings were corroborated with academic publications.

And in line 318-320 page 9 as:

The data from Table 3, identifying plant materials according to the Plant Resources of South-East Asia (PROSEA) book series, reveal a strategic distribution and functional use of plants

 

Explain the process of categorization: “The categorization divides 294 the plants into several functional groups” (294) Form this suggestion, also explained in in line 130-142 page 4 as:

The utilization of plants was documented through structured interviews with purposively sampled participants, including monks, temple caretakers, and long-term residents of over 20 years in the study area. Transcripts were analyzed for recurring themes using qualitative data analysis tools, and the findings were corroborated with academic publications.

 

Thank you very much for your constructive feedback. We appreciate your suggestion to focus the article and dive deeper into one subject. Your insights are invaluable in enhancing the clarity and coherence of our work. Thank you again for your helpful comments.

 

Author Response File: Author Response.docx

Round 2

Reviewer 3 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

The authors have made the suggested corrections, although it is still a bit difficult to read, I believe it can be published.