Women in the Australian Baptist Denomination in Peace and War, 1920–1945

Round 1

Reviewer 1 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

This article could be a valuable contribution to scholarship but needs significant revision. I think it is well worth the author persisting with the revision process because Australian Baptist women are not well represented in the scholarship and the author's archival work is promising. I would encourage the author to take time to revise the manuscript and deepen the analysis with reference to the wider scholarship.

This article presents evidence from Australian Baptist archival sources not widely represented in the scholarship. However, it does little to analyse these sources in the light of Baptist theology, the historiography of women in the church or in Australia, or gender studies. These significant oversights must be addressed before publication.

The article is framed as "Women's contributions to the Australian Baptist denomination" but this is likely to be read as sexist and outdated in its assumptions. The article does not indicate awareness of developments in gender studies or Australian women's historiography, so I am guessing that the use of the term "contributions" is not a conscious decision to be sexist and patriarchal. The author should urgently consider the arguments put forth in Marilyn Lake's 1986 article "Historical Reconsiderations IV: The politics of respectability: Identifying the masculinist context," in Australian Historical Studies 22, pages 116-131. See also, Joan Wallach Scott, "Gender: A Useful Category of Analysis", American Historical Review Vol 91, no. 5 (1986), pp 1053-75. These articles outlined, nearly 40 years ago, why we no longer use "contribution" to speak of women's activities and instead use ministries. The author should consider not only changing the word "contribution" to "ministry" but to reframe the approach - that is, ask a different question - ask about women's ministries and the limits and possibilities rather than what women contributed to (men's) work.

The article writes of women's involvement in foreign mission without regard to the racial politics of this. The author only mentions numbers, not the issues of gender and race that enabled women's involvement in mission rather than in the pulpit. It is not satisfactory to write about women's missionary work without analysis.

The article does not explain why Baptist theology prevented women from full participation in the ministry. Women were baptised like the men, but they were not enabled to minister like the men. Some explanation is required: e.g., congregational polity and the appointment of women in extraordinary circumstances (cf. Pitman, 2016).

The article cites a large range of archival sources and is to be commended on bringing these to light. However, the absence of recent secondary sources relating to Australian women in religion means that the article is not sufficiently scholarly for peer-reviewed publication. I suggest that the author read widely on the history of women in religion in Australia in order to bring depth to their analysis of Baptist archival sources. The list maintained by the Australian Women's History Network would be an excellent starting point: https://www.auswhn.com.au/resources/gender-history-readings/religion/  See especially O'Brien (2005), and also Pitman (2016), Warne (2017). It would also be worth looking for recent scholarship on Baptist women such as Marita Munro (2009) "The Changing Role of Women in Leadership among Victorian Baptists", Our Yesterdays, 17. pp. 94-123, and (2012) "And your sons and daughters shall prophecy". Our Yesterdays, 20. pp. 90-113. ISSN 1320-6877  These articles may be available from the Baptist Historical Society in Victoria. It would also be appropriate to compare the experiences of Australian Baptist women in the mid-20th century with those women surveyed by Kathleen Bliss on behalf of the World Council of Churches, "The Service and Status of Women in the Churches" (1952), at least to get some perspective on the issues faced by Australian Baptist women.

In addition, attention to the following matters will significantly improve the article:

Title - The title quotes a phrase "wise and gracious" that is mentioned only once in the article and not explained. If the phrase is to be retained in the title, it must be better explained in the text. For example, were women "wise and gracious" for keeping their heads down and not causing trouble with the male hierarchy? The content of the article would seem to imply that this was the case, but it's not argued as such.

Title - "contribution" is a highly charged term to use in women's history (since the mid-1980s). Consider re-framing the argument and avoiding the term (unless the author wants to make the point that women are contributors to men's history in a male normative denomination). 

Abstract - The abstract promises a focus on women’s organisations but the opening paragraphs focus on individuals. The abstract needs editing to better reflect the content.

line 40/41 - colonial and state appear to be conflated. Clarify which period is intended in line 41. Is it before or after 1901?

51 – “led to” or was it the only option? The analysis is a bit simplistic.

54 – the phrase “was a feature” is not clear. Consider "was a part of the programs offered", or similar. Use the organisation’s proper name – Young People’s Society of Christian Endeavour (commonly abbreviated to Christian Endeavour or CE). 

54 - sentence commencing "CE" is poorly worded. It implies that CE started with Baptists in Australia, but this is not true. It started in the US and it was first adopted in Australia by a Churches of Christ congregation led by an American evangelist. 

64 - Are these international figures? The references cited are international. Be precise and clear.

75 - This implies that after 1920 they were other than significant. Be careful with language.

113 - “were expected” by one another or by men? It makes a difference, so please articulate (and substantiate) whose expectations are driving women’s behaviour.

140 - How do you know that few women applied and funding was unstable? This statement needs substantiation.

169-210 - Regarding women in pastoral ministry appointments, why did Baptists not ordain women? What objections were raised? Did women leave the denomination to pursue ministry where there were more opportunities? What were the tasks of women in early/mid-20th century Baptist congregational/pastoral ministry appointments? Were they paid equally with men? 

359 - Regarding women on the board of the ABFM, please state whether or not they had full voting rights. Compare the status of women's service on the ABFM with that of women on other denominational missionary boards (where, in many cases, women were absent or did not have voting rights).

367-404 - Consider if Baptist women were involved in women’s peace groups such as WILPF (Kate Laing, Sisters in Peace, ANU Press, 2023) and other groups. If they are not active, throw light on Baptist women's ecclesiology and theology of ministry by considering why Baptists did not involve themselves alongside Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.

370 - When writing about how people in the interwar period thought about the war, refer to it as the Great War. They didn't call it WWI until WWII.

383 - The note on men’s absence during WWII as a motivation for appointing women to congregational pastoral roles belongs in the earlier discussion on women’s ordained ministry. 

Finally, I note that Baptist men are largely absent from the article and I am guessing that this is a decision by the author. However, the women would have been working with/against the limits imposed by men so it is appropriate to include mention of particular individuals or denominational statements that address the roles of women or the limits thereof.

Comments on the Quality of English Language

The English is fine. A few sentences need to be more particular and precise in order to be accurate.

Author Response

Response is attached

Author Response File: Author Response.docx

Reviewer 2 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

This article is well written, offers concise presentation, and the organization of content is easy to follow. I appreciate the author’s research and believe this article adds to the scholarly literature related to the role of women in the Baptist denomination. The historical focus of 1920-1945 provides depth to the significance of women’s impact to the denomination. I would have loved to read more about practical application and implications of your research on today’s 21st century Australian Baptist church and beyond. 

Author Response

Thank you for your response.

Reviewer 3 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

This article contains some interesting examples of the contributions of women in Baptist churches in Australia. There was a good amount of detailed research included. I would recommend its publication with the following issues considered:

 

Lack of a clear thesis

At present, the article lacks a clear thesis. It is said that Baptist women have been “largely ignored” or “overlooked” in the introduction but it is not clear where this has happened. Within denominational history?  Australian history? There needs to be a clearer explanation of which scholars the author is engaging with. 

 

I also think the claim that women have been “largely ignored” or “overlooked” or “forgotten” is an overstatement. Some authors have discussed the role of women in Australian Baptist churches: e.g. Ken Manley’s From Woolloomooloo to 'Eternity': A History of Australian Baptists and his most recent Silas Mead and his Baptist family; Tony Cupit, Ros Gooden and Ken Manley’s  From Five Barley Loaves, Barbara Coe’s excellent contributions to the Baptist Recorder on women in NSW/ACT Baptist history. 

 

I think the argument that women have not been adequately represented in histories of Australian Baptists could still stand, while acknowledging the work of others in this field. 

 

Terminology

The reference to the “Baptist denomination” does not reflect the way Baptist churches have related to one another in Australia. Local Baptist associations (which were established in different colonies/States) have tended to operate separately from each other. These associations did interact with one another, but never as one “Baptist denomination.”

 

Consideration of broader historical context 

Some comments on how the role of women in Baptist churches in Australia compared to women in other church contexts would be useful. It might be worth looking at some secondary literature on the role of women in religious work in Australia: e.g. Anne O’Brien’s God’s Willing Workers. Were the activities of Baptist women typical of women in Protestant churches from the time?

 

Introduction and conclusion

The use of the “wise and gracious” quote in the introduction and conclusion (as well as the title) needs to be explained further. Some historical context as to when this was said would be helpful. In the conclusion, I thought the substance of the quote from Adelaide Bamford was used in a way which might not have fit with the Bamford’s original meaning. She seems to be utilising Keswick “higher living” language to refer to persevering as a Christian. I’m not sure she is making a comment about the need for women’s involvement in denominational work.

 

If these issues are addressed, I think it will make a worthwhile contribution to the journal.

Author Response

Thank you for pointing out that my thesis is unclear. I have added the words "within the historiography" at line 23. I agree that there are important inclusions in the work referenced, but in reality women remain hidden.

With respect to terminology, I agree that the terminology is slightly inaccurate. I have added a new footnote stating: The Australian Baptist denomination is not a single organisation. However, for the purposes of this article, the word ‘denomination’ is used as a broad description of Australian Baptist congregations and colonial/state unions.

With respect to context, the revised article has included examples of women within other Australian denomination, and some reference to ordination in the UK.

With respect to Adelaide Bamford, I agree that she is possibly using "Keswick" language, but I have retained these words, and I believe that a new reference to Adelaide Bamford makes her position on women in the denomination clearer.

 

Round 2

Reviewer 1 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

The article is much improved and I commend the author for their persistence with the process. It is not an easy thing to do! 

I'd recommend that the addition at lines 32-35 ('Largely the article') may be removed. This addition addresses a question that responds to review and not the content of the article.

I recommend removing the word "revisionist" in line 145. The term can inadvertently suggest illegitimacy when, in fact, all historical writing revises and is thus, in some sense, 'revisionist'. 

At lines 273 and 288 it says "no evidence". It is very difficult to be certain that the evidence never existed or will never be found. Just in case someone else comes up with some evidence next year, it may be wise to say that there is "currently no evidence to light" or "no evidence to hand" or something like that. 

The salary information at line 216 deserves to be in print! People need reminding of the inequity. Thanks for including this.

Reviewer 3 Report

Comments and Suggestions for Authors

I am happy with the changes made in response to my review.