Maturity and Fruitfulness in A Song of Ice and Fire: A Reflection in Theological Anthropology
Round 1
Reviewer 1 Report
Comments and Suggestions for AuthorsThe article is very well written and touches upon the important topic of spiritual maturity. It is also commendable that the author engages with one of the most appreciated books in popular culture, A Song of Ice and Fire. There are however several points that in my opinion need to be elaborated in order to strengthen the argument. The most important is what makes ASOIF a Christian book. The author mentions in the introduction three reasons why the book should be engaged with from a theological perspective, but the author does not explain what elements made him or her think of it as Christian, apart from the existence of deities and their impact on human lives in certain volumes. Without this clarification, it is hard to understand the discussion on grace and the example of maturing in the case of Jamie Lannister. Is not grace about maturing in Christ? If so, what is the relationship between grace and those outside of Christ/Church as Jamie is in the book? To my knowledge, Jamie himself does not profess any religion despite the fact that there are many deities and religions available to him in the novel. So, finally why is Jamie Lannister preferred as an example of how grace works rather than other characters? The third point is again linked with the Christian nature of the book. In the conclusions, the author speaks about “the values of good, justice, and truth” p.10. In what way are the good, justice, and truth expressed in the book the same with those preached by Christianity? For instance, the author says that Daenerys Targaryen is one of the characters who is motivated by justice, giving the following example:
“Similarly, Daenerys Targaryen expresses her conviction in a conversation with her sworn sword Ser Jorah Mormont in A Storm of Swords that royalty is in the world to keep justice. Shortly after, she commands her army of the Unsullied, eunuch slave soldiers trained to unquestioning obedience, that she just purchased from the Good Masters, that is, slave traders and the rulers of the city of Astapor, to slaughter their former owners, while liberating all slaves and saving children. Not only championing justice, Daenerys’s attitude also honors the other regardless of their status, ethnicity or age.”
One can only wonder if this type of justice can really be called Christian.
Author Response
Comment 1: The most important [question] is what makes ASOIF a Christian book.
Response 1: Thank you very much for your helpful feedback, including this comment. It is indeed the most important point, and I am grateful to you for bringing it up as it gave me an opportunity to make my theoretical point of departure as well as methodology in the article more explicit. I do NOT view ASOIAF as a Christian book series - and do not intend to turn it into one. My point of departure is that culture is an autonomous mediator of a meaning which is not "extracted" by the interpreter from the work of culture but rather "constructed" in the interaction between the work of culture and the interpreter. The point, then, is not to show that, say, the concept of grace or justice as introduced by a particular work of culture are Christian in nature. Rather, such reflection can enrich, expand, or challenge our own (Christian) understanding of these concepts. I added a lengthy paragraph on p. 2 (marked in red) and two more bibliographical references (Lynch 2005, Marsh 2018) to explicate these ideas. I believe it in a sense also responds to your Comment 2 and, especially, Comment 3. Thank you once again for this!
Comment 2: Is not grace about maturing in Christ? If so, what is the relationship between grace and those outside of Christ/Church as Jamie is in the book? So, finally why is Jamie Lannister preferred as an example of how grace works rather than other characters?
Response 2: thank you also for these questions. While you are certainly right about your definition of grace as (the driver that enables believers to) mature in Christ, I strive for a more inclusive definition in this article. I understand grace in terms of "stirs of new energy, hope, and possibility" (see, e.g., the first paragraph of section 3. Grace). I believe it is a theologically legitimate understanding, and, moreover, one that allows space for God working outside of the church/the lives of the believers - exactly the point you are raising in your second subquestion in Comment 2. While it might be possible to single out other characters to show how grace works in their lives (most notably perhaps Tyrion Lannister), I believe that it is Jaime in whose life those "stirs" are experienced as grace in the most significant ways to liberate him so that he is able to construe a new identity, a new self (see the second but last paragraph in Section 3. Grace, p. 6, marked in red). Thank you!
Comment 3: The third point is again linked with the Christian nature of the book. In the conclusions, the author speaks about “the values of good, justice, and truth” p.10. In what way are the good, justice, and truth expressed in the book the same with those preached by Christianity?
Response 3: And, finally, thank you also for this comment. I think I addressed it in my response to Comment 1 already. No, the concepts of good, justice, truth, etc. as espoused by ASOIAF are not necessarily the same as those preached by Chritianity (even though, nota bene, there is a great diversity in how they are understood, preached, and lived even within Christianity itself!). One of the points I am making in the article is this: "It is the message that one should not give up on the values of good, justice, and truth even when one is ridiculed (e.g., Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister), when it is personally inconvenient (e.g., Robb Stark) or when one must live under the circumstances of hardship (e.g., Daenerys Targaryen). In midst of all of this, one is to grow in maturity toward virtues and fruitful communal well-being. This is where ASOIAF is relevant for the theological understanding of maturity and fruitfulness as inherently linked to transformation, as proposed by this article. " (quoted from section 6. Conclusion, the second but last paragraph; I marked it red in the text). While the specific understandings of these concepts and values might different, it is paramout to be committed to them. By the way, the example you give of Daenerys commanding her newly purchased soldiers to massacre their brutal former owners, ironically referred to as "the Good Masters," is interesting. It might be theologically salient to explore parallels, similarities and differences between this episode and the story of the Ten Plagues of Egypt from the biblical book of Exodus. But such an endeavor, of course, goes far beyond the scope of the present article. Thank you once again for your helpful feedback!
Reviewer 2 Report
Comments and Suggestions for AuthorsAn article “Maturity and Fruitfulness in A Song of Ice and Fire: A Reflection in Theological Anthropology” presents theological hermeneutics of popular series of fantasy novels A Song of Ice and Fire. The text includes inspiring content not only for nones (as the author believes), but also Christians. Both the concept of the article and the detailed analysis of the source are carried out in a clear, consistent and convincing manner. I would like to point out few points, a minor correction of which could help improve the author’s interpretation.
I would like to note that the keywords repeat terms used in the title of the article. Instead, I suggest using keywords that refer to kinds of studies, e.g., theological hermeneutics, cultural theology, literary studies, and George R.R. Martin. Such keywords will be more evocative to potential readers of this article and may help increase the number of the readers.
Moreover, I suggest deepening the clarity of the author’s polemic with Bergler (page 2). One can get the impression that Berger believes that being young always implies immaturity. If so, what about children and young people who are recognized as mature beyond their biological age? What about children whom the Church has declared saints? The author can rhetorically ask Bergler these questions.
The author understands unity as “as being-one-with-oneself (i.e., authentic and undivided)” (page 3). I am afraid that this definition may be exclusive and hurtful to people who are socially and spiritually discerned as being-one-with-oneself, but who are experiencing various types of mental and/or identity tensions. For instance, can't an adult child of an alcoholic who participates in therapy be being-one-with-oneself? Or rather, is participation in therapy a certain manifestation of social, mental and spiritual being-one-with-oneself? Maybe we do not have a clear answer here. Therefore, I believe that the definition of unity as “as being-one-with-oneself (i.e., authentic and undivided)” introduced by the author may be exclusive and hurtful.
The author writes “I suggested that stirs of “new energy, hope and possibility” (Chapman 2018: 12) be understood in terms of grace as they come unexpectedly” (page 4). New energy, hope and possibility understood in terms of grace do not always come unexpectedly. Sometimes they are God’s answer to a prayer for them. Thus, I suggest removing the passage that says that new energy, hope, possibility, and grace come unexpectedly, or add: “sometimes come unexpectedly”.
My last point refers to the interpretation of Jaime. The author explains that Jaime’s “mere existence and notoriety that he moves people to think and act in certain ways. However, Jaime himself remains detached from and untouched by all this throughout the process. The reader cannot really observe any sign of maturing or bearing fruit on Jaime’s part” (page 5). I suggest to clarify: “The reader cannot really observe any active sign of maturing or bearing fruit”, because, as we read two sentences earlier, his passive presence (mere existence and notoriety) affects people, so maybe it can also bears certain fruit.
Despite my suggestions above, I found the article interesting and inspiring. I recommend publishing the article after making the revision suggested.
Author Response
Comment 1: I would like to note that the keywords repeat terms used in the title of the article. Instead, I suggest using keywords that refer to kinds of studies, e.g., theological hermeneutics, cultural theology, literary studies, and George R.R. Martin.
Response 1: Thank you very much for your very helpful feedback and suggestions - in this comment, as well as the others. I changed the keywords accordingly (marked in red in the text under Keywords)
Comment 2: Moreover, I suggest deepening the clarity of the author’s polemic with Bergler (page 2). One can get the impression that Berger believes that being young always implies immaturity. If so, what about children and young people who are recognized as mature beyond their biological age? What about children whom the Church has declared saints? The author can rhetorically ask Bergler these questions.
Response 2: Thank you, the point accepted! I integrated the suggested formulations in the text (marked in red, in the second paragraph on p. 3).
Comment 3: The author understands unity as “as being-one-with-oneself (i.e., authentic and undivided)” (page 3). I am afraid that this definition may be exclusive and hurtful to people who are socially and spiritually discerned as being-one-with-oneself, but who are experiencing various types of mental and/or identity tensions. For instance, can't an adult child of an alcoholic who participates in therapy be being-one-with-oneself? Or rather, is participation in therapy a certain manifestation of social, mental and spiritual being-one-with-oneself? Maybe we do not have a clear answer here. Therefore, I believe that the definition of unity as “as being-one-with-oneself (i.e., authentic and undivided)” introduced by the author may be exclusive and hurtful.
Response 3: This is an excellent point, thank you very much!!! I added a footnote to the text (no. 5, marked in red) in which I acknowledge the validity of your point, admit I have no clear response at the moment, and recognize it as a topic for further research.
Comment 4: The author writes “I suggested that stirs of “new energy, hope and possibility” (Chapman 2018: 12) be understood in terms of grace as they come unexpectedly” (page 4). New energy, hope and possibility understood in terms of grace do not always come unexpectedly. Sometimes they are God’s answer to a prayer for them. Thus, I suggest removing the passage that says that new energy, hope, possibility, and grace come unexpectedly, or add: “sometimes come unexpectedly”.
Response 4: Thank you! I deleted the word "unexpected" in places, so that the new phrasings now read "an undeserved gift" (p. 4, second paragraph) and "as they can be, to be sure, interpreted as an undeserved gift" (p. 5, first paragraph under 3. Grace; marked in red).
Comment 5: My last point refers to the interpretation of Jaime. The author explains that Jaime’s “mere existence and notoriety that he moves people to think and act in certain ways. However, Jaime himself remains detached from and untouched by all this throughout the process. The reader cannot really observe any sign of maturing or bearing fruit on Jaime’s part” (page 5). I suggest to clarify: “The reader cannot really observe any active sign of maturing or bearing fruit”, because, as we read two sentences earlier, his passive presence (mere existence and notoriety) affects people, so maybe it can also bears certain fruit.
Response 5: Finally, thank you also for this suggestion. I added the adjective "active" to the appropriate place (p. 5, first paragraph under 3. Grace; marked in red)
