Interpreting Medieval Scottish Church Stained Glass Windows: Decoration and Colour in Relation to Liturgy and Worship

Round 1

Reviewer 1 Report

The research and content of this paper is highly valuable and will support our understanding of the design and history of stained glass in Scotland and beyond.

The paper relies on the interpretation of color and decoration of fragments excavated from various sites. One comment claims that "colourless" glass was less expensive than coloured glass. Was it indeed "colourless" or slightly greenish, due to impurities in raw materials? This might deserve a remark in a footnote.

Documenting the colour and decoration of degraded glass with one single image is difficult. Reading this article might raise the curiosity of readers for more information: Fig 1 - was it taken in reflected light? Fig 2 at least partially in transmitted light? If taken in different modes of photography, the two images are difficult to compare.

Author Response

We thank the reviewer for their comments on this article, which were very positive. In terms of the specific points raised:

The reviewer stated "One comment claims that "colourless" glass was less expensive than coloured glass. Was it indeed "colourless" or slightly greenish, due to impurities in raw materials? This might deserve a remark in a footnote.". 

Line 98 has been amended to read "Most of this excavated glass is ‘white’ (colourless barring impurities) with some coloured pot metal glass". There is no green/blue tint.

On the figures that the reviewer discusses, these images were provided to us but we have not been able to ascertain the precise manner in which the images were taken. In addition, these are the highest quality images of these glass shards. 

Reviewer 2 Report

The article by Kennedy and Penman presents the potential of a cross-disciplinary approach to the study of Scottish stained glass, combining analytical with textual and liturgical analysis. The article is thought-provoking and adds new dimensions to the study of lost or fragmentary archaeological and artistic artefacts.

However, the ‘cross-pollination’ of the various pieces of evidence has not been entirely successful or convincing. Before the manuscript is suitable for publication, a number of issues need to be addressed, mostly relating to the structure of the argument and the presentation of the (primary) evidence. For example, the material/archaeological evidence seems to come from previously published articles, which should be more clearly stated and the relevant information presented more succinctly. In its present form the manuscript reads like a string of independent ideas that should be better integrated. Moreover, some of the historical interpretations seem to be somewhat simplified, and more caution is needed, for example, regarding the meaning (symbolism) of light in the medieval world.

Major points - Results and Discussion

Lines 160 ff

Please state explicitly that the material evidence on which the following discussion is based comes from Spencer's thesis/publication. In addition, the main results relevant to the present article should be briefly presented, including an estimate of the quantities of samples recovered. This should also be included in Table 1, and the type of glass, if identified, should also be included in Table 1 (potassium rich French versus high lime German glass). What is the evidence for the latter being cheaper?

Lines 190 ff

The prevalence of colourless glass is associated with the Cistercians. However, Table 1 shows that both colourless and coloured glass was recovered in both Cistercian contexts, while only colourless glass was found in some of the Benedictine abbeys. This apparent contradiction may be related to a sampling bias (i.e., relative quantities), and it is for this reason that the number of samples must be considered (see above).

Lines 199-201 – please reconsider/remove this sentence. There is a vast literature on the meaning of light in the medieval world, and works of art (e.g. colour) can also promote religious contemplation, depending on the philosophical school of the time.

Lines 202 ff

What is the link between white glass and grisaille? Could the fact that border pieces are better preserved also explain the prevalence of white glass in the archaeological record?

Lines 231 ff

The argument revolving around the possible influence of Thomas Becket’s cult is not clear. On the one hand, there appears to be an interplay of colour and light (after 1220), on the other hand, “churches began to limit the use of intensely colourful figurative glass” between the 1220s and 1260s (lines 254ff). Does this imply that the more austere Cistercian tradition was the norm, while the use of colour as observed at Canterbury is the exception? If so, what does it mean that “other monastic Orders … are believed to have employed glass very differently” (line 226). The connection between these different observations is not evident and needs clarification.

Lines 319-328 - The possible existence of an older rose window or two in Elgin seems purely speculative, and it is not clear what this is supposed to contribute. If it is relevant to the overall argument, then this needs to be made more explicit.

Lines 329 ff

The textual sources referring to ‘glaziers’ is the kind of result/evidence on which the discussion should be based, i.e. the results/discussion should start with the concrete case studies rather then the way it is currently placed at the end of the discussion.

The possible origin (France, Germany) of the glass is repeatedly remarked upon. Given recent advances in the field of stained glass, this should be a little more elaborated, e.g. are the characteristics of glass from the Lorraine and Rhine regions the same? (lines 378ff). And how does this relate to the discussion of colour that follows?

Minor remarks

·      “secular cathedrals”  seems an oxymoron, please reconsider.

·      For the non-expert unfamiliar with the intricacies of the Reformation in the British Isles, it might be interesting to briefly explain why the Reformation on both sides of the Scottish border had such a drastically different effect on the preservation of stained glass windows and scriptural sources alike (e.g. this is remarked upon in the methods section). Especially, because parallels are drawn between Scottish and English windows (lines 279 ff).

·      “recent English and European scholarship” (line 255) – references are needed.

Author Response

We would like to thank this reviewer for their suggestions and comments regarding this manuscript. Where possible we have incorporated these comments and feel the article is far better as a result. Please see below a point-by-point response to the specific comments. 

The reviewer stated: "Please state explicitly that the material evidence on which the following discussion is based comes from Spencer's thesis/publication. In addition, the main results relevant to the present article should be briefly presented, including an estimate of the quantities of samples recovered. This should also be included in Table 1, and the type of glass, if identified, should also be included in Table 1 (potassium rich French versus high lime German glass). What is the evidence for the latter being cheaper?"

Response: we do state this throughout at several points. For example p. 9 ‘Spencer’s ground-breaking thesis sampled 36 glass shards.’ As per the reviewer's suggestion, table 1 has been amended to present the origin of the glass. This improves the table significantly and we thank the reviewer for this suggestion. Evidence for the latter being cheaper is given in Spencer’s thesis and discussed at length therein; this is referenced at the correct point in the manuscript.

The reviewer stated: "

The prevalence of colourless glass is associated with the Cistercians. However, Table 1 shows that both colourless and coloured glass was recovered in both Cistercian contexts, while only colourless glass was found in some of the Benedictine abbeys. This apparent contradiction may be related to a sampling bias (i.e., relative quantities), and it is for this reason that the number of samples must be considered (see above)."

Response: Lines 245-246 state that at Elcho Nunnery, which is Cistercian, only 6 shards out of a total of 256 recovered were coloured, the remainder were colourless. However, the reviewer is correct that the number of samples recovered appears to be a limiting factor; the Benedictine samples in particular are difficult to find physically and records of their recovery is scant.  The updates to Table 1 hopefully clarify these issues. 

The reviewer stated: "Lines 199-201 – please reconsider/remove this sentence. There is a vast literature on the meaning of light in the medieval world, and works of art (e.g. colour) can also promote religious contemplation, depending on the philosophical school of the time."

Response: This has been amended; reworked to make it clear this relates to Cistercian liturgy

The reviewer stated: "Lines 202 ff What is the link between white glass and grisaille? Could the fact that border pieces are better preserved also explain the prevalence of white glass in the archaeological record?"

Response: This is already stated in lines 252 to 258.

The reviewer stated: " Lines 231 ff The argument revolving around the possible influence of Thomas Becket’s cult is not clear. On the one hand, there appears to be an interplay of colour and light (after 1220), on the other hand, “churches began to limit the use of intensely colourful figurative glass” between the 1220s and 1260s (lines 254ff). Does this imply that the more austere Cistercian tradition was the norm, while the use of colour as observed at Canterbury is the exception? If so, what does it mean that “other monastic Orders … are believed to have employed glass very differently” (line 226). The connection between these different observations is not evident and needs clarification."

Response: We do not consider this as a "possible" linkage; it has been studied and published by other scholars. We have included some of these in the references and in response, have added others. However, we feel that the comment garbles what we actually say – colour focussed on the east end and so colour and light’s importance is focussed, not dropped

The reviewer stated: "Lines 319-328 - The possible existence of an older rose window or two in Elgin seems purely speculative, and it is not clear what this is supposed to contribute. If it is relevant to the overall argument, then this needs to be made more explicit."

Response: We concur with the reviewer that this is speculative. We have said at several points in the text but here we emphasise survival of tracery pieces and link to abstract angles of grisaille patterning.

The reviewer stated: "Lines 329 ff The textual sources referring to ‘glaziers’ is the kind of result/evidence on which the discussion should be based, i.e. the results/discussion should start with the concrete case studies rather then the way it is currently placed at the end of the discussion."

Response: We agree, and have moved this to the opening paragraph of the article.

The reviewer stated:  "The possible origin (France, Germany) of the glass is repeatedly remarked upon. Given recent advances in the field of stained glass, this should be a little more elaborated, e.g. are the characteristics of glass from the Lorraine and Rhine regions the same? (lines 378ff). And how does this relate to the discussion of colour that follows?"

Response: A paragraph has been added (lines 216-223) discussing blue glass has been added as an exemplar, as this is the colour that has the most variance. For reasons of space it is not possible to reproduce the results of the Spencer thesis to a larger degree in this article as there is much, much more to say regarding the chemistry of glass from these dates and regions.

The reviewer stated: "“secular cathedrals”  seems an oxymoron, please reconsider"

Response: we have removed this.

The reviewer stated: "For the non-expert unfamiliar with the intricacies of the Reformation in the British Isles, it might be interesting to briefly explain why the Reformation on both sides of the Scottish border had such a drastically different effect on the preservation of stained glass windows and scriptural sources alike (e.g. this is remarked upon in the methods section). Especially, because parallels are drawn between Scottish and English windows (lines 279 ff)."

Response: We agree, and have added a section (lines 60-65) elaborating on this.

The reviewer stated: "“recent English and European scholarship” (line 255) – references are needed."

Response: Added Shortell, Marks, Gelin, Cothreen at notes 35-7